“Johnny Carson and Ed McMahon existed unto themselves. There was no late-night war. There was no competition. It was just a leisurely conversation. When you look at some of the old interviews that went on for like three acts, they don’t talk about anything. There just was nothing else on. When it started to be a competition, then it started to be about a personality and branding the show based on this one person.”—Talk-show personality (and Conan O'Brien "second banana") Andy Richter, theorizing on how the late-night tradition of talk-show sidekick declined, quoted in Dave Itzkoff, “The Top Second Banana Moves On,” The New York Times, June 27, 2021
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